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Question Time By Greg Lee

Nathan's question was, in Joel chapter 2, the promise is that when the Spirit comes,
old men will dream dreams, young men will prophesy, and the sons and daughters and so
forth, and yet I said that the only way the Bible promises that the Spirit will speak
is through the Gospel and through Scripture.
And Nathan has actually answered the question for me by pointing us to Acts chapter 2.
So come with me to Acts chapter 2 because Peter interprets for us Joel.
The situation is that the Holy Spirit has just come upon the apostles and they've all
started speaking in tongues and the people have assumed, or some of the people at least,
have assumed that they're drunk.
Acts chapter 2 verse 14, actually start a little before there, go to verse 5.
Now there were staying, Acts chapter 2 verse 5, now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing
Jews from every nation under heaven.
When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment because each one of them heard
them speaking in his own language.
Utterly amazed, they asked, are not all these men who are speaking Galileans?
Then how is it each of us hears them in his own native language, Parthians, Medes, Elamites,
residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt
and the parts of Libya near Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and converts to Judaism,
Cretans and Arabs, we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues.
Amazed and perplexed, they asked one another, what does this mean?
Some however made fun of them and said they've had too much wine.
Then Peter stood up with the eleven and raised his voice and addressed the crowds, fellow
Jews and all you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you, listen carefully what
I say to you.
These men are not drunk as you suppose, no it's only nine in the morning, no this is
what was spoken by the prophet Joel.
In the last days God says I'll pour out my spirit on all people, your sons and daughters
will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams, even on my
servants both men and women I'll pour out my spirit in those days and they will prophesy.
I'll show wonders in the heavens above and signs on the earth below, blood, fire and
billows of smoke, the sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the
coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord and everyone who calls on the name of
the Lord will be saved.
We've got the situation where people are doing something that is completely out of the ordinary,
they're speaking in the languages that they weren't born with, that they weren't taught
as children and notice in verse eleven what it is that they're saying, we hear them declaring
the wonders of God in our own tongues, that is so far as I can tell what's happening here
in Acts two is that the Holy Spirit has come upon the apostles and the apostles are now
preaching the gospel, the gospel of Jesus Christ to the rest of the Jews because you
notice who it is that these visitors actually are in verse five, they're God fearing Jews
from every nation under heaven, that is this is happening at the Passover, the Pentecost
is when all of the Jews would gather in Jerusalem to celebrate the harvest coming in, the beginning
of the harvest and they'd come from all around the world, all of the Jews that have been
scattered around the world have come back to Jerusalem for this great feast and now
the gospel is being declared to them in the tongues that they were born with, what Peter
says then is this gospel being preached to you is exactly what Joel was promised, exactly
what Joel promised in Joel chapter two, the last days, the day when God judges the world,
the day when he pours out his spirit, this has happened and so Peter sees Joel, the dreams,
the visions, the prophesying, Peter sees Joel being fulfilled in the preaching of the
gospel, that is what does he mean when he says your young men will see visions, your
old men will dream dreams, there'll be blood, fire, billows of smoke and prophecy, what
Peter says is the fulfilment of that is actually the preaching of the gospel, make sense?
So in terms of dreams, visions, I don't think Peter is expecting that we're going to have
dreams and visions, I think what Peter is saying is all of what Joel promised for the
future is happening right here, notice how he says it, verse 16, this, what you're seeing
in front of you, this preaching of the gospel is what was spoken by the prophet Joel, Joel
is fulfilled in the preaching of the gospel, how is it that we prophesy?
Preach the gospel, how is it that we dream dreams?
Preach the gospel, how is it that we see visions?
Preach the gospel, that's what I think Joel and Acts are saying, make sense?
I'm seeing some nods, that'll do me, okay, other questions or comments?
Greg, can you talk more about is God detainted by sin if he wills it, okay, that's the question
really isn't it?
Yeah.
I have 10 points.
Most of them are fairly short, okay, point one, we have a problem with God willing evil
because it seems to suggest that God is part of evil then or that God himself condones
evil or that evil is part of God or we have a problem with God willing evil, that's point
one, but point two, we have a bigger problem by saying anything else.
For instance, say we were to decide that the reason there is evil is because God can't
stop it, well at that point all of your hopes for the future are futile, you see if God
can't stop Satan from doing evil then what makes you think that heaven is a sure hope?
If God isn't in complete control, why would you ever trust him with your eternity or let's
assume that it was something else, maybe it's not that Satan can defeat God and bring about
evil, maybe it's that Satan kind of slips by God, that God kind of turns his back for
a moment, he's a little bit like a negligent parent.
Well at that point you've got problems with God's love, haven't you, how can you trust
a God who is so unloving that he kind of is a negligent parent, that evil happens without
him kind of being ready for it or something, no, even if we end up with the idea that God
or what are the alternatives, we've got that Satan defeats God and therefore we have evil,
we've got that Satan slips past God, well the other one is that God himself likes evil
in some way, again how can you trust God?
You see the alternatives don't work either, that's the second point.
The third point, the Bible asserts that God wills everything that happens, we saw that
in Ephesians 1 verse 11 didn't we, that God works out all things according to the purpose
of his will.
The fourth point, this includes sin, so we saw that with Jesus in Acts chapter 2, that
the greatest sin that was ever committed was the death of our Lord Jesus Christ, we know
that it was a sinful act because in Acts chapter 2 Peter says, you with the help of wicked
men put him to death and that was something that God willed because God foreknew it and
happened according to his purposes.
So point one, we've got a problem with God willing evil because it seems to attach evil
to God.
Point two, we've got a bigger problem with any other hypothesis.
Point three, the Bible asserts that God wills everything that happens.
Point four, this includes sin, but point five, God himself never sins.
So in James chapter 1 we're told that God doesn't tempt and neither can God be tempted,
but God is entirely righteous.
Point six, so far as I know, the Bible never tries to explain how God can will sin and
not be responsible for it.
I guess what I'm saying is the Bible never really sets out to answer our question.
All it does is lay out the facts.
God is entirely responsible for everything that ever happens.
Human beings are responsible, the evil happens, God wills it to happen and yet God himself
is righteous.
The Bible doesn't try to tie the ends of it together and so point seven, eight, nine and
ten are my wisdom rather than what the Bible is saying.
Point seven, it may help us, it may help you in your thinking to divide each sinful act
into three parts, motive, the act and the result, that is you can look at any event
from three angles, can't you?
You can look at the motive, you can look at the acting of itself and look at the result.
So I walk an old lady across the road, in and of itself it's neither a good nor a bad
thing.
I could walk her, the motive is what determines it, isn't it?
So I could walk the old lady across the road because I can see she needs help or I could
walk her across the road because on the other side of the road are the people who are going
to bash her up and take her money.
The motive is what determines the goodness of the act.
When the Bible discusses God's motives and in fact the motive for sin, we see that God's
motives are always good.
So come to Genesis chapter 50, Genesis chapter 50.
Joseph's brothers did something that was undoubtedly evil in that they sold him as a slave.
Look how Joseph responds when they finally come face to face with him.
Genesis 50 verse 18.
His brothers then came and threw themselves down before him.
We are your slaves they said, but Joseph said to them, don't be afraid am I in the place
of God, you intended to harm me, but God intended it for good, to accomplish what is now being
done, the saving of many lives.
So then don't be afraid, I will provide for you and your children.
So you've got an evil act occurring, the selling of Joseph as a slave.
You've got the motive of the brothers, which is to harm him, but the same act willed by
God is actually for good.
So when it comes to the question of motive, God's motive is always good.
When it comes to the question of the act, now you might be able to help me here, but
so far as I can see, God is never said to do an evil act, that is God is never said
to be the one who does the thing, it's the human beings who do the evil thing, it's the
brothers who sold Joseph into slavery.
The Bible seems to put the evil person as a buffer between God and the evil act, that
in terms of the act itself, God wills it to happen, but he himself never does anything
evil and in terms of the result, God works everything for our good.
So when we look at sin from the three angles, from motive, God's motive is always good,
he never does the evil act and he always works good from it.
Now there are the ten points and again what I want you to hear is points seven, eight,
nine and ten are my take on it, that's how I try and make sense of it because I don't
think the Bible ever really tries to make sense of it, but what the Bible does say is,
God is in complete control of everything that ever happens, it happens according to his
will.
This includes sin, but God himself is entirely pure.
That's really the fact, they're the facts as the Bible gives us, the rest of it is my
interpretation.
Now are there any questions on this?
Yeah, that's a great question, does Romans 28 apply to non-Christians against, I don't
think it's necessarily on this but I'll answer it here straight away because it looks like
no one else has actually got a problem.
Romans 8.28 doesn't necessarily speak of non-Christians, it's speaking very clearly about Christians
isn't it?
It's about those who love him, so we turn up Romans 8.28, the question is for the tape,
when Romans 8.28 says that God works for the good, does that speak of non-Christians or
Christians?
Romans 8.28, and we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him
who have been called according to his purpose, for those God foreknew he also predestined
to be conformed to the likeness of his son, that he might be the firstborn among many
brothers and that those he predestined, sorry, he also called, those he called, he also justified,
those he justified, he also glorified, so clearly it's talking about Christians there
isn't it?
So does that mean that God only works for the good of Christians?
Well to a certain degree yes, the people of God are those especially loved by God, there
is a difference between God's love for his people and God's love for the world, that
you are the people, if you're a Christian, that God predestined before the creation of
the world, we're going to talk about this tomorrow night, you are the people God predestined
before the creation of the world to be his children, the brothers and sisters of Christ
with his special covenant love, but that doesn't mean that God doesn't work for the good and
doesn't love non-Christians, so this is one of those things that I think is very important
to get right if you come from a reformed background, if you come from a Calvinist background, the
idea that God does love all of his creation.
Come to Matthew chapter 6, sorry chapter 5, verse 43.
You have heard that it was said, love your neighbour and hate your enemy.
But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you that you may be
sons of your father in heaven, he causes his son to rise on the evil and the good and sends
rain on the righteous and the unrighteous, if you love those who love you, what reward
would you get, are not even the tax collectors doing that?
And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others?
Do not even pagans do that, be perfect therefore as your heavenly father is perfect.
Why is it that we're to love our enemies and pray for those who persecute us?
So that we'll be like our father in heaven, who sends the rain and the sun on the righteous
and the unrighteous, that is God does love non-Christians, even the people who hate him,
who revile his name, who persecute Christians, God loves non-Christians.
And so he is at work for their good too, a different good though than the good he is
at working for you.
If you're a Christian, the good that God is at working for you is to bring you to the
likeness of Christ, to make you like Jesus Christ in heaven, and we're going to be exploring
that tomorrow night.
If you're a non-Christian, God isn't at work for you for that good, but God is still at
work for your good.
That is, he still provides the sun and the rain, he's still a benevolent God who holds
you in the palm of his hand.
Never have the idea that God hates non-Christians, even though he does hate sin and sinners.
God, like us, is capable of hating and loving the one person at the same time.
Good memory.
God doesn't just hate sin, he hates the sinner.
God hates you if you're a sinner.
But God, like us, is complex.
That is, my parents, I'll tell you a story about my parents.
Those of you who don't know, I come from a non-Christian family, and between them, before
my father died, my parents managed to rack up ten divorces between them, so five divorces
each.
Now, if you ever want to see human beings at their very worst, watch them in a divorce,
because human beings do things you never would have guessed to each other in a divorce.
On one particular day, my parents married, divorced when I was 18 months old, went off,
tried marriage, took another couple of different partners, then got back together and had another
crack at it, and then got divorced again when I was 17.
On the day that my parents finally decided to split up, I came home to my father's house
and he said, are you on my side or her side?
And I said, well, I'm on no one's side.
He said, that means you're on her side, you can't leave with me.
So I went to my mum's house.
She said, are you on my side or on his side?
Now, you would have thought I'd learn.
I should have said, I'm on your side, mum.
What I said was, I'm on no one's side.
She said, that means you're on his side, you can't leave with me.
Now, at that point, my parents were doing hateful things, both of them.
Within 25 minutes, I was thrown out of both of my parents' houses and I was effectively
destitute until, by the very grace of God, I was taken in by my girlfriend's parents,
who were Christians, and through them, I learned how to be a husband and how to be a parent.
It was a wonderful God's blessing to me that I was put into those houses.
But on that day, I learned to hate my parents, because I could see the horrible evil that
they did.
But I never stopped loving them.
Of course, I love them.
You see, we're capable, even we are capable of both loving and hating the one person.
That is, we love them for the good that they do.
We hate them for the evil that they do.
We hate the evil in them, but by and large, we still love them.
So we're God.
God is just like we are.
He's complex.
Okay.
Jen's question is, if God works for the good of those who love him, what about before we're
Christian?
And the answer to that one is Romans 8, verse 28, and we know that in all things, God works
for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.
For those God foreknew, he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son,
that we might be the firstborn among many brothers.
And those he predestined, he called.
And those he called, he also justified.
And those he justified, he also glorified.
You may not know it, but you have had a relationship with God, if you're a Christian, from before
the creation of the world.
Tomorrow night, we're going to be looking at Ephesians chapter 1, which has this wonderful
verse that before the creation of the world, God predestined us to be his sons, and that
he chose us before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless.
And then at the right time, he called us.
So God has always, if you are a Christian, God has always been working for your good.
Part of that good is bringing you to faith in the Lord Jesus Christ at just the right
time.
Again, thinking about my life, as you can imagine, the house I was born into was thoroughly
pagan.
I think by the time I was 17, when I became a Christian, I may have been to church twice.
I certainly had no concept at all of the gospel.
And yet, at just the right time, when I was, I think it was late in year 11, when I was
drunk at a school formal and had just been told to leave by the principal, I just happened
to be walking across a dance floor and bump into a girl who I thought was pretty good-looking
and start dancing with her, who turned out to be a Christian.
And then we started going out because she was really stupid for going out with a non-Christian.
Her parents were just the most glorious and wonderful people who evangelized me like crazy
and I got converted.
Who would have thought?
But God, in his goodness, had chosen me from before the creation of the world and was working
for my good, so that at just the right time, I met just the right girl who introduced me
to Jesus Christ and I was saved.
Because those God foreknew, he also predestined and he called and God's been at work for good
in my life since before the creation of the world, and yours too.
Now we want to go back to the question over here.
The whole idea of the still small voice that people talk about, that God spoke to me in
the still small voice and the whole language of that, comes from the King James Version
of 1 Kings 19, where, like I said, Jezebel is going on the rampage, all of Israel has
left the worship of Yahweh, and Elijah has a hissy fit.
And he says, that's it, I'm out of here.
And he leaves Israel and he goes all the way back to Mount Sinai.
Why?
Because that's where Israel began.
That's where Israel got the Ten Commandments.
And God says to Elijah twice, Elijah, what are you doing here?
And Elijah says, well, everyone's left.
Everyone's stopped.
Everyone's abandoned you, God.
And then you get an earthquake.
God's not in the earthquake.
You get a fire.
God's not in a fire.
And then the King James Version, the Authorised Version, translates it as God came, or there
was a still small voice.
The NIV translates it as something like a silent whisper, a gentle whisper.
What the Hebrew actually says is silence.
There was gentle silence.
Why?
Because God had nothing to tell Elijah.
Everything God needed to tell Israel, he told them on Mount Sinai.
That's why God's saying to Elijah, Elijah, what are you doing here?
Israel's hundreds of miles away in the Promised Land.
Why are you here?
I've got nothing new to tell you.
Go and tell them to obey the law.
So the whole still small voice thing, in a sense, it's a really bad, it's a misunderstanding.
And it's an unfortunate misunderstanding, because it was a really bad translation.
But from memory, it might be the New American Standard Bible that actually gets it right.
And there was gentle silence, because God had nothing to say.
Thin silence, is it?
In the silence.
Yeah, in the footnote.
But the word is pretty common.
And it's translated silence as almost everywhere else.
I checked it the other day, and I was thinking, why do they translate it whisper here when
it's silence almost everywhere else?
Well, partly it's because it's so entrenched in the Christian culture, this idea of the
gentle whisper or whatever it is, the still small voice, it's so entrenched in the Christian
culture, that if you translate it as silence, Christians won't buy your Bible.
It's like the Lord's Prayer.
Jesus does not say, give us today our daily bread in the Lord's Prayer.
He says, really clearly, give us today the bread for tomorrow.
Because the bread for tomorrow is the bread of God's great kingdom in the book of Isaiah,
the great feast.
But people are so used to saying, give us today our daily bread, that if you translate
it that, if you translate it, give us today the bread for tomorrow, no one will buy your
Bible.
The editors of each new Bible, when they put it out, know that.
And so they keep translating it wrongly, even though they know it's a wrong translation.
I think it's the same with 1 Kings 19, they're too afraid to translate what it actually says
is silence.
The still small voice is too entrenched.
Okay, any other questions?
Do you see what you've read in the New Testament, the All-Scripture is God-breathed?
Then, the scripture that they have in the Bible, does that mean that it's all God-breathed?
Well, it's great that you asked that question.
The question is, in 2 Timothy 3, 17, we're told that all scripture is God-breathed and
useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training Russia, so that the people of
God may be equipped for every good work.
The scripture they had was actually the Old Testament.
And so, does that mean that in the Old Testament we have every good work?
The answer to that is, the Old Testament is everything we need.
The answer to that is both yes and no.
We're trying to give you the answer.
Are we?
Go on, I'll give you the answer.
I was.
Alright, I'll give half the answer.
I'll give the answer that I can.
The rest of it, well, you've just been given a big hint, the answer is in 2 Peter, isn't it?
I'll give you a hint that says yes.
Have a look in 2 Timothy 3, verse 10.
You, however, know all about my teaching, my way of life, my purpose, faith, patience,
love, endurance, persecutions and sufferings, what kinds of things happen to be in Antioch,
Iconium and Lystra, the persecutions I endured, yet the Lord rescued me from all of them.
In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted,
while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.
But as for you, continue in what you've learned and have become convinced of,
because you know those from whom you learned it, and how from infancy you have known the
holy scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
All scripture is God-breathed and useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.
Sarah's right.
The scriptures that Timothy had were the Old Testament, but notice what the Old Testament is good for.
It's able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
That is, if you have the Old Testament, you have everything you need to know to spot Jesus,
to understand who he is, to place your faith in him, and so to be saved.
The question is, is the Old Testament the only thing that the New Testament calls scripture?
And that's the question I can't answer because of 2 Peter.
So go hunting in 2 Peter, and you'll see.
You can also go to 1 Corinthians 9, yeah.
Supposing God does decide to speak to me or you through a dream or through a quiet silence,
how are we actually meant to know?
Thank you.
Supposing that God does decide to speak to us through a dream or through something else,
how are we meant to know?
My answer is precisely.
That's the great problem.
Come back to Deuteronomy, chapter 18.
While you're going, I'll tell you a story.
Not long after I came to Newcastle, a young fellow came to me and said that he had a word from God to me.
And the word from God to me was that through me, God was going to bring revival to Newcastle in the year 2001.
He was an overseas student, and he said, I have a word from God.
God will bring revival to Newcastle through you in 2001.
I was chuffed.
I thought it was lovely.
Now, here is what's, it's a prophecy, isn't it?
He said it, and he said it's from God.
What do you do if he gets it wrong?
Clearly, unless it was a fairly modest revival, it didn't happen in the year 2001.
Well, I'll tell you what they did in the Old Testament.
Deuteronomy, chapter 18, verse 14.
The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own brothers.
You must listen to him, for this is what you ask the Lord your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly when you say,
let us not hear the voice of the Lord our God or see his great fire anymore or we'll die.
The Lord said to me, what they say is good.
I'll raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers.
I'll put my words in his mouth, and he'll tell them everything I command him.
If anyone doesn't listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account.
But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I haven't commanded him to say,
or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods must be put to death.
You may say to yourself, how can we know when a message has not been spoken by the Lord?
If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true,
that's a message the Lord hasn't spoken.
That prophet has spoken presumptuously, don't be afraid of him.
If I'm true to Deuteronomy 18, what I should have done is put him to death.
The reason I read you that passage is, it raises questions about God's character.
Is God the sort of God who makes himself unclear?
Is God the sort of God who hides in the shadows and says whispers of things that you don't quite catch hold of
and you're not quite certain it's from God and it may be from God and I think it is, no.
When God spoke, he made himself absolutely clear, clear enough that if what the person said wasn't true, you should kill him.
That is, a prophet's life was on the line.
And so when God spoke to Israel, it was abundantly clear.
Now, what that means is, if God were to speak to me in a dream or in something else, a vision,
then I suspect that it would be abundantly clear.
I wouldn't even have a second thought that it was from God, I'd be rocked to my bootstraps.
Isaiah chapter 6, when Isaiah stands in the presence of God, he says, woe to me, I'm going to die now
because I'm a sinful man and my tongue is sinful and boy oh boy, I'm in the presence of God.
And so if God were to speak by a dream or a vision, I would expect, boy, I'd know it.
But the fact is, that fellow spoke presumptuously.
And almost every time someone says, I have a word to you from God, really it's a word from themselves.
But don't hear me saying that God will never do it or God could never do it.
He just doesn't promise.
And since he doesn't promise, I don't think we should seek it.
I think what we should do is look for where God has promised to speak in the Bible.
And if he does speak in another way, bonus.
Okay. Ben has been waiting very patiently, last question of the night.
We also have question time on Thursday night.
I realize that you're frustrated about 2 Peter, but it's for a very important reason that we do it.
And that is, we believe exactly what I preached earlier, that you have the Holy Spirit.
All of you here, you and the Holy Spirit through scripture is your teacher.
So you don't really need me to answer your questions.
You guys can do it in the groups.
And you've seen how badly I answer questions.
Ben.
Can I make sure that you're saying that God loves all the people?
Yep.
In Romans 9, it says that you love to stand with the people.
Yep, Romans 9 is quoting Malachi 1, where Israel are accusing God of hating them
or of not being faithful to them in some way.
And God says that he loved Israel, but hated Esau.
However, and that's true, Malachi says it.
However, God also loves Esau in that Esau was also the son of Abraham Isaac.
And God tells Israel not to attack the Edomites, the descendants of Esau,
when they're going into the promised land.
That is, God hates the Edomites, the descendants of Esau,
because of what they did to the Israelites.
When the Israelites were attacked by the Assyrians,
the Edomites came out and helped them.
And they stood there and they laughed and they cut them down.
You see, you read all of that in the book of Obadiah.
And so God hated Esau's descendants for that, for their great sin.
But God also loved Esau's descendants, just as he loved Esau.
And so I think that's a great example of God hating and loving the one person,
just the same as we do.
We're no different to God at that point.
So I think, thank you, you've given the perfect illustration of it.
Okay, we're done for tonight.
Does the Spirit never work in people's minds?
Are you saying that any feelings we have on a subject
are feelings we ourselves have come up with alone?
No.
Remember, the Spirit does work and change our minds
and conform us to the pattern of God.
However, any feeling we have,
we can't take necessarily as guidance from God,
in that God speaks definitively through His Word.
So as you grow in your maturity, as we grow to become more like Christ,
we will learn to think God's way.
But this side of heaven, we'll never think perfectly God's way.
And so, whereas instinctively we'll grow to think more like God,
we want to keep informing our instincts in the Scriptures.
And so any feeling that you have, you can't be certain is from God,
but any word you read in the Bible, you can.
Who should I marry?
Please help me, Greg.
Well, if you're a girl, this week I spent the week sharing a room with Jason Lyons,
and I can tell you that he's fantastic.
He has impeccable hygiene.
And when I was vomiting through my migraine,
he came in and gave me a little wet towel for my forehead.
How can we be absolutely sure of our salvation?
God may choose to harden our hearts any time He chooses for His glory.
I'm not saying this is wrong, but honestly, I would like to know for sure.
Should this be our attitude, in brackets, to desire the kingdom of God above all else,
or should our attitude also be that of Romans 9, 1-4?
How can we be...
Okay, so Pete wrote this one.
How can we be sure of our salvation?
I think...
Hebrews, come with me to Hebrews, chapter 2.
Sorry, Hebrews 3, verse 12. Hebrews 3.
Hebrews 3, chapter 3, verse 12, I think helps us to see, helps us to think about certainty.
See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God,
but encourage each other as long as it is called today,
so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness.
We have come to share in Christ, if we hold firmly to the end, the confidence we had at first.
So, how does he say that we get certainty? How is it that we know?
Well, we have come to share in Christ, if we hold firmly to the end, the confidence we had at first.
That is, faith in Christ that is real is faith in Christ that lasts.
And so, he says, see to it, brothers, that you don't have a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away.
And so, if you're looking for mathematical certainty that you have genuine faith,
then I don't think you can find it this side of death,
because faith that is real is faith that lasts.
So, if you're looking for the absolute rock solid evidence of, you're not going to get it.
However, I believe that, now, you also say that in the parable of the sower, don't you?
The parable of the sower, the soil, the word gets sown everywhere.
Which one is it that produces a crop? The one that lasts.
The one that actually, which is the real one? The one that produces the crop.
However, I do believe that as you look at your life, you will see God at work in you.
So, how do you know that you have the Holy Spirit?
The Holy Spirit leads you to confess Christ Jesus as your Lord and God as your Father.
So, if you confess Jesus as Lord and God as Father, then that's evidence of the Holy Spirit within you.
What else is evidence of the Holy Spirit in you?
Well, the fruit of the Spirit, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.
And so, as those things work themselves out in your life, you can see that you have the Holy Spirit.
So, I think one of the most encouraging things for me this week was hearing Pip on Wednesday night say,
I have changed so much in the last 18 months. Isn't that wonderful?
That there is evidence that she has real faith.
It's not conclusive, 100% never be argued against proof because I think this side of heaven,
until our faith lasts to the end, you can't know that.
But boy, it's great proof, isn't it? It's great evidence, isn't it?
As I look at Pip's life, yes, I can see that here is someone that God is doing real work in.
And so, if you want to know whether or not your faith is genuine,
well, there's a certain book in the New Testament that says to add to your faith goodness,
that add to your goodness self-control, to add to and to make your calling and election sure.
That's how you know your faith is real when you do those things.
Other ones, I understand that God speaks through the Scriptures and that we find this in the Bible,
but who decided the books and the letters in which were and weren't included?
There's a book called In Understanding Be Men, which was written by a fellow named T.C. Hammond
loads and loads of years ago that has a little section in it called The Canon of the Scripture.
That is, this question is a historical one and I can give you a very brief outline, a broad sketch,
but my memory being what it is, it'll always be dodgy, a good way to find out is to read In Understanding Be Men.
Most general books of theology, if you look under the word canon, it'll tell you.
However, I'll give you my memory of it. As I understand it, almost the whole of the New Testament,
as it was written and as it was received, originally was considered to be Scripture.
So, you recognize a book in the New Testament where the author says that Paul's words are Scripture.
That is, when the book of Romans was read by the Romans, they read it as Scripture.
So, it's not as if there was any one point where they sat down and they said,
okay, what are we going to make Scripture? No, no, no, God wrote it as Scripture.
All Scripture is breathed out by God. It didn't become Scripture when the humans sat down
and decided to make it Scripture. It became Scripture when God wrote it.
All the councils did over the first 200 years was say, we all think this is Scripture,
don't we? We've all said this is it, yep, great, okay.
Now, the reason they had to do that was because of heresy.
Two particular heresies made life very difficult for Christians in the first 300 years.
One was a fellow named Marcion who wanted to remove a whole bunch of stuff from the Bible.
Effectively, he didn't like the Old Testament, oof, it's gone.
Any reference to the Old Testament and the Bible, oof, it's gone as well.
Kind of like Paul, but not all of Paul, anything that Paul quoted from the Old Testament was gone.
Now, people thought, gee, Marcion's creating a real problem for us and he's getting lots of followers.
We need to figure out what we've always thought the Bible was, don't we? So that was him.
Another fellow was a guy named Montanus who said, I am the Holy Spirit among you
and anything I say to you is now Scripture. Now, there's a problem, isn't it?
And so, again, that forced them to sit down and figure out what they thought the Bible was.
So that's the sort of process they went through, but it's not as if the Bible was just a bunch of works
that everyone had and they said, well, we'll call these Scripture from now on.
Now, they always believe that what we have in the Bible was written by God.
The forming of the canon was brought about due to pressure from outside to figure out exactly what we all believe
was always written as the Word of God. That's very rough because my history is always poor
and so, like I say, look up candid in any good dictionary. In fact, look it up in the new Bible dictionary
because there's still one copy at least up there and it'll have a good article.
This is a fantastic question. You told us that we should not expect God to guide us in any other way
except through the Bible and the work of the Holy Spirit. However, people believe that they are guided in other ways.
How do we respond to them? How do we respond to other churches and what they teach?
This is a practical question, isn't it? It's a pragmatic question and the answer is
that we must always be guided by love and truth, which aren't opposed to each other but work together.
So, we're called to speak the truth in love. Now, what that means is, for me, I was converted in a church
that believed very strongly in extra scriptural revelation. So, dreams and prophecies
and I have a word from the Lord for you, brother, and those sorts of things.
Occasionally, I still go back to that church and I still love those people dearly
because they're brothers and sisters and they're some of my oldest friends.
But I've sought to do two things. One, I've sought to listen very carefully to what they say
because they, too, have the Holy Spirit. They, too, are being changed by God
and they, too, will be in heaven with me. For eternity, I'll be praising Jesus with them,
most of these people. And so, the worst thing you can ever do to a brother or sister
is just discount what they say straight off. I may be wrong. And so, listen very, very carefully
and love them regardless. But, two, help them to think it through.
I think this is a conversation. Anything that comes out of experience and that we feel strongly about,
being proved that we're wrong becomes an issue of embarrassment and pride.
And so, I went to university being very certain that God had given me extra scriptural revelation.
And throughout my first year, I had a very gentle Bible study leader who didn't say,
you're wrong because he knew that my pride wouldn't cope with it.
My own sense of, I built a lot of my Christian life around this and to find out that I'm wrong,
suddenly I would feel foolish. And so, what he did was he just taught the scriptures
and the sufficiency of the scriptures. My tactic is, and if you've been around NCS for a while,
you'll have, hopefully, you'll recognize and go, okay, that's what he does.
My tactic is to so play up scripture, to so show people that the Bible is everything you'll ever need
and to be so personally interested in the scripture and teaching the Bible
that people's interest in those other things simply wades or dwindles on the vine.
So, if you've been coming to NCS long enough, you'll know that Andrew and Jenny and Jill and I
and everyone else are so passionate about the Bible that over the course of time,
people's interest in dreams and visions and that sort of stuff just dwindles
because that's not where the action is. The action's in the Bible.
And so, when it comes to helping people who are caught up in other things,
rather than approach it head on, I'd want to say, be personally passionate about scripture
and as they see that, deal with the issues as they arise.
Now, it's a pragmatic thing, so it's just wisdom. This isn't a word from God.
It's just the way I personally have found it helpful. Any questions on that one?
Okay. Now, what other questions or comments? That's all I've got written down.
The question of how God changes his mind. Is that in 2 Peter 1? No? Cheetah!
The question is, how does God change his mind? Is that in 2 Peter?
Okay. Yeah, yeah. Okay. How does God change his mind?
It's clear in the Bible that God does change his mind.
I don't think anybody who reads their Bible can deny one predestination.
You can't deny predestination. It's all the way through the Bible.
But you also can't deny that God changes his mind. God changes his mind all over the shop.
How does God do that without destroying his already decreed will?
It also raises the question of prayer, doesn't it?
What is the good of me praying if my prayer has no effect on God?
Because that all fits in the same sort of question, doesn't it?
The way I have come to understand it is that God changes his mind in a way that is real,
but also which reflects a decision he has already made.
That is, God changes his mind, but he knew that he would and planned that he would
because the relationship he has with us is real.
So I think you see it with Abimelech.
So come to Genesis chapter 20.
Now Abraham moved on from there into the region of the Negev and lived between Kadesh and Shur.
For a while he stayed in Gerar and there Abraham said of his wife Sarah,
She is my sister. Then Abimelech king of Gerar sent for Sarah and took her.
But God came to Abimelech in a dream one night and said to him,
You're as good as dead because of the woman you've taken. She's a married woman.
Now Abimelech hadn't gone nearer, so he said, Lord, will you destroy an innocent nation?
Did he not say to me, she's my sister? And did she not also say, he's my brother?
I've done this with a clear conscience and clean hands.
Then God said to him in the dream, Yes, I know you did this with a clear conscience
and so I have kept you from sinning against me. That's why I did not let you touch her.
Now return the man's wife for he's a prophet and he will pray for you and you will live.
But if you do not return her, you may be sure that you and all yours will die.
See what happens there? God knows what Abraham was going to do.
God knows that Abimelech will take Sarah as his wife.
God keeps Abimelech from sinning and God says to Abimelech,
The reason I've done this is so that Abraham will pray for you and then you will live.
And yet the dream starts with, you're a dead man. You're as good as dead.
So God comes having known it all and planned it all in advance and says, Abimelech, you're as good as dead.
And then Abimelech makes his plea and God says, Yep, I always knew that that was going to be the case.
I planned it that way. So you're going to pray. You're going to get Abraham to pray for you and then I'll forgive you.
Now the same thing happens in Deuteronomy. In Deuteronomy, God says to Israel,
You're going to sin. I'm going to send you into exile. Then you'll pray and then I'll bring you back.
And the same thing happens in the dedication of the temple.
When Solomon is praying in the dedication of the temple, he says,
When we've sinned and you punish us and scatter us and we pray to the temple,
we're looking towards the temple, pray to you, forgive us and bring us back.
Jesus says it in the Lord's Prayer. Jesus says that God knows what we will pray
and what we need even before we ask Him. You see, God in His sovereignty
knows what we're praying, knows what we'll need, knows the decisions we'll make
and is so powerful He can respond to them and change His mind
all within His broader plan. Hard to wrap your mind around,
but that's God. He is that powerful. His choice is real, His decision is real,
His change of mind is real and yet He is so powerful it all falls within His plan.
And so that's why you should pray. How do you know that God has a decree
to answer your prayer for your friend to save your friend?
Same with your actions, isn't it? How do you know that God hasn't decreed to use your words
to bring your friend to salvation? That's why you ought to do it.
Because the sovereign God works hand in hand with people, even in changing His mind.
Hard concept, but there He is.
So if you've had a friend who's died and not sure if you're a Christian or not,
it gets you better.
Oh, gee. Yeah, gee, I don't know. That one's a hard one.
My dad died as a non-Christian and I still don't know what to pray about it
and I don't know what he did in those last minutes,
but my view of the sovereignty of God means that I'm still kind of hoping.
I've got a little hope in my heart that he might have been there.
I've got no evidence. I've never seen the work of Spirit in my dad's life,
but he heard the Gospel. I preached it to him a couple of times
and in that last few minutes did he cry out,
Oh Lord, oh Lord, save me? I don't know. It's a hard one.
Other questions? Ellie?
Inaudible
Same way that my wife loves me, even though I keep sitting and making her sad all the time.
Remember that...
Inaudible
God, oh sorry, yes. Ellie's question is, in Ephesians 4.30,
when we sin we grieve the Holy Spirit.
How is it that God can maintain relationship with us even when we grieve him?
What is the basis of my relationship with God?
All the way through the New Testament, the basis of my relationship with God
is Jesus' full, perfect and sufficient sacrifice on my behalf.
That Jesus Christ has died for my sins is the basis of my relationship with God
and because of his death and because I have trusted in Jesus,
nothing I do in terms of sin will take me out of God's kingdom.
That is, the reason I got into God's kingdom wasn't my performance, it was Jesus' death.
And so nothing I do can take me out of God's kingdom.
Same with marriage. What is it that means that I am married to Emma?
Well, on December the 3rd, 1994, I said, I will take this woman till death do us part.
Now, nothing I do now is going to make me more married to Emma.
Nothing I do is going to make me less married to Emma when she divorces me.
However, within the context of the relationship, we can please or hurt them.
And so I think it's true of God. I think God looks down on his people in godliness with genuine pleasure.
I think God delights in your obedience and I think God rejoices in it.
And I think God is also saddened by our disobedience, which is a tremendous power to have, isn't it?
So in Genesis 6, God looks upon the world he has created and he is saddened by it.
And I think that's true.
And I think we can grow and diminish in our enjoyment of our relationship with God.
So the more faithful I am to Emma and the more I do the things that please her, the more I enjoy being married to her.
And the more faithful I am to God and the more I do the things that please God, the more I enjoy my relationship with God.
For me, one of the biggest motivations to remain godly is that I just love knowing that God's happy with me.
He'll never be unhappy with me in the sense of ruling me out of his kingdom, but what I do can make God sad, can grieve the Holy Spirit.
I'm sorry, there's a question before that and then I'll come back to Richard.
I was just going to say a little bit about your history.
You were a director when you were 17 years old.
I was just going to talk about your history.
What is it in your 13 years as a director?
I decided right about now, actually, in 1991, my first winter con, that I would try and do full time ministry.
And a friend gave me a really great piece of advice.
He said, OK, now you've got the will and the decision, the desire to do it.
What you want to do is work out reasons why perhaps you shouldn't.
One reason is, it may be that you don't have the emotional temperament for it.
So full time ministry is very much a people geek.
It's a very people job.
And there are some people for whom that much people stuff is very difficult.
In all honesty, some people should not do it because they have committed sins that mean that that sin is simply coming out.
Will bring the name of Jesus into disrepute.
So 1 Timothy 3, the elder should be the husband of but one life.
There are certain decisions that there are certain things you can learn about yourself over a period of time that you go,
full time ministry might be the best thing for me.
And he said, now that you've got the desire as an 18 year old, why don't you spend the rest of your uni degree
figuring out if there's any reason why you can't.
And that's where something like club 5 can help.
So club 5, there's nothing magical or special about it.
It's just a week, a weekend, sorry, where the Bible is taught very well.
And the weekend is devoted to thinking about, should I do full time ministry?
Should I do paid ministry?
And one of the questions that gets asked and you're helped to answer is, why shouldn't I?
And that's a good question to ask before you go off to Bible college.
So there were some issues in my life I had to work through before I could do it.
That'd be it for me.
Kylie?
Jesus was a little kid.
So did he have any reason to answer that question before I could go to Bible college?
Great question.
Is that a two-peter question by any chance?
It is.
Okay.
The answer to that I think lies in Romans chapter 5.
Yeah, that's right.
If a question is difficult, I'll throw it into the two-peter basket.
The question is, if Jesus was fully human, does that mean he had a sinful nature?
In Romans chapter 5 verse 12 following, you see that there are two classes of humanity.
There is humanity within Adam and there is humanity within Christ.
So verse 12,
Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death came through sin,
and in this way death came to all men, because all sin, for before the law was given, sin was in the world,
but sin is not taken into account when there is no law.
Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses,
even over those who did not sin, by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was the pattern of the one to come.
But the gift is not like the trespass.
And then it goes on.
What he says there is that Adam is the pattern of Jesus who is to come.
That is, there are two classes of humanity.
There is the class of humanity that is within Adam.
There is the class of humanity that is Jesus and those who belong to him.
Sin came into the world through Adam.
That is, sin is not intrinsic to humanity.
Sin is intrinsic to humanity within Adam.
Jesus comes as a new class of human being, fully human, but without sin.
And we are joined, we move, we change allegiances from humanity within Adam to humanity within Christ.
And so, yes, Jesus is fully human, but no, he does not have a sinful nature,
because to be fully human doesn't require a sinful nature.
That came in Genesis 3.
The sinful nature is a product of the fall.
Sin came into the world through one man.
So, why is the sinful nature the bias towards sin?
Well, the sinful nature isn't the capacity to be tempted.
The sinful nature is the bias towards sin.
So, in Romans, so come over to Romans chapter 8, verse 5.
Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires.
But those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires.
The mind of the sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace.
The sinful mind is hostile to God.
You see, the sinful nature isn't the capacity to sin.
Adam had that before he had the sinful nature.
The sinful nature is the bias towards sin.
So, the illustration I tend to use is that we are like a car,
that when you take the hands off the steering wheel, we always swerve off in one direction,
which is always towards sin.
Jesus did not have that.
He still had the capacity to sin, though.
The choices he made, the choice he made in the Garden of Gethsemane, was still a real choice.
He had the capacity to sin, but not the bias towards it.
That's what the sinful nature is.
If you want to put it in these terms, the sinful nature is slavery to sin.
Jesus had free will.
So, I think Jesus is the one person that you can say free will about,
in that he had the capacity to sin, but also the capacity to choose not to.
We have a slavery to sin.
That's the sinful nature.
So, Jesus is fully human, but I don't think the sinful nature is intrinsic to humanity.
It's intrinsic to fallen humanity.
Make sense?
Eddie's been waiting to ask a question for three days.
So, I'll go to Eddie.
It's a great question. Did everyone hear the question?
Repentance is the change of mind that leads to a change of behaviour.
Does that mean that if we struggle with a sin, that our salvation is in doubt?
It's a fantastic question, isn't it? Because that's something that affects our whole lives.
It affects all of us, because all of us, if you're a Christian,
we've all made that statement of repentance, haven't we?
We've all said, Jesus, I want to leave my old life, and I want to follow you now.
And yet, we constantly seem to unmake that decision, don't we?
Where does assurance of salvation come from?
Well, assurance of salvation comes from the promise that's in Christ,
that Jesus Christ is my full, perfect and sufficient sacrifice.
He paid for my sins.
And so, my entrance into heaven is not a product of my performance,
but a product of His death.
So, that's what gets me to heaven.
How do I know that my repentance is real?
Well, it's real as I see the fruit of the Spirit in my life.
Sorry, I know that it's real as I see the fruit of the Spirit in my life.
So, as the Spirit brings about in me love, joy, peace, patience, goodness,
kindness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control, in increasing measure,
I begin to say, yes, I can see that my faith and my repentance is real.
This side of heaven, however, it will never be perfect.
So, put it in these terms.
I used to walk that way, away from God.
At the right time, God granted me faith and repentance.
Now I'm walking that way, but I stumble.
I trip, I fall, but I continue to keep walking that way.
And even after I've fallen, I get up and I say, I look back and I go,
no, that's not the way I want to walk, that's the way I want to walk.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, that's the way I'm walking.
You see, on earth, we'll never fully live out our declaration of repentance.
We'll never fully walk directly in the straight line that way.
We'll wander, we'll swerve, we'll trip.
However, as the Spirit works in us, every time we fall, we'll get up
and we won't fall as often, but we'll keep walking in that direction.
Make sense?
Repentance on earth is never perfect, but it's that one decision you keep making
and keep making, and that I sin doesn't mean that I'm not a Christian
because the reason I'm Christian is Jesus died for me.
So that's the way I think about it.
Matt, and then Matt.
Getting back to the free will thing, did you say that now as a Christian
that we're going to have some limited free will?
No, we don't have limited free will so much as we now have, we're within the Spirit.
So Romans 8 verse 5, those who live according to the sinful nature
have their minds set on what nature desires, but those who live according to the Spirit
have their minds set on what the Spirit desires.
We have something better than free will.
We have the Spirit working within us.
That's better than free will.
So whereas we used to have a bias in that direction, now we've got a bias towards God.
Free will as I walk straight down the center, but we have the Spirit,
which is even better than free will.
Martin Luther put it beautifully.
He said, humans are mules, ridden either by Satan or by God, but we're never free.
Great point.
So we've got something better than free will.
Yeah, Nathan.
I have a question for you.
You said you found more to do than to be a Christian,
and I think why that's been brought to you is because I think you're here,
but to be honest, I don't think Christians are as big as you are,
and I think that's why I'm saying why it's been brought to you.
Well, I think the second piece of advice you got wasn't quite the right one.
The piece I gave you was very good.
Nathan's question is, I said you shouldn't marry or go out with an immature Christian.
Another piece of advice he's received is you shouldn't go out with someone
unless you've been a Christian for one or two years.
Essentially the same piece of advice, but they've just put a timeframe on it,
and I think, yeah, Christians do mature at different rates.
So I became a Christian on the 16th of February, 1989,
and then lived out 1989 and 1990,
and I don't think I grew very much at all in that period of time as a Christian.
I still committed most of the same sins I always had.
I never really grappled very well with repentance.
I was leading a youth group, but I was more sinful than most of the kids.
But when I hit uni in 1991, boy, I grew a lot then.
So people mature at different rates.
The same person goes through different periods of time.
I personally wouldn't put a timeframe on it,
but what I would say is there's not a lot of point going out with someone
unless you think that you may be able to marry them.
You don't have to be definitively certain.
You don't propose on the first date, but if you know you can't marry someone,
why would you go out?
As you're looking to go out with someone, I'd be asking myself,
is this person going to be really good for my godliness if we get married?
The timeframe I'm not so fussed about, but I'd be looking.
Now, what's the best way you do that?
How do you measure someone's godliness before you start going out?
I'd watch them from a little bit of a distance in groups.
How do they treat other people?
How do they act in Bible study?
How do they speak about other people?
How do they speak about other people who disagree with them?
How generous are they?
By looking at people in a wider group, you can learn a lot about their godliness.
The wonderful thing, friends, is the more godly you become,
the more attractive godliness becomes.
When I married Emma, she was a hottie.
I reckon she still is. Emma's a beautiful girl.
But she's far more attractive to me now than she ever was
because I've fallen in love with her godliness.
She's adorable.
Over the course of time, learning to cultivate that attraction to godliness
is a surer road to happiness.
Any other questions? Adrian.
This is one of those things where I hate giving this answer.
I remember a couple of years ago working through this passage
and coming to the point where I was really dissatisfied with the NIV translation.
The conclusion I came to was that it was a bad translation
in that it made it feel like, yes, that it's working hard for the Lord,
whereas the way Paul wrote it originally makes it fairly clear
that it's working obediently, working in godliness.
Jen, you were in the car when we did it. Can you remember it? You can't either?
We were driving to a conference, Jen, Dave and I, and we pulled it out,
and we were all amazed at what a bad translation it was.
I'm going to have to get back to you, but off the top of my head,
I realize how dissatisfied that is to say it's a bad translation.
What I might do is try and spread amongst the group what my longer answer is.
I think full-time ministry will give you a greater satisfaction than any other job
because my job is to pray, my job is to read the Bible,
my job is to encourage Christians to grow in Christ,
my job is to do all of the things that involve being...
I do exactly the same stuff you do in your spare time. I do full-time.
It's not as if there are people who work and people who do ministry,
but you do my job, it's just that you do it for a little bit of your week.
You do it in Bible studies, you do it at church, you do it when you're chatting.
What you've experienced this week at Winter Con is what my life is like.
Apart from that, it really is a wonderful job.
There are bits of full-time ministry that are tedious, having to work on roles,
having to work on budgets.
There are parts of full-time ministry that really are...
They're not ministry so much as they're aids to being able to do ministry.
The reason we do them is so that I can do the praying, I can read the Bible with people,
and those bits, frankly, are horrendous. It's awful.
Our budget is something like a quarter of a million dollars
with all the various staff that we've got and paying for stuff.
Having that sitting on your shoulders, frankly, is awful. I hate it.
But the rest of my job...
What you have got this week from Senno and Jenny and I is the distillation
of all of the stuff that we've had the privilege of reading for the last six months.
I've read a dozen books on guidance and God's sovereignty and the nature of the Scriptures.
I got paid for that. Fantastic. What a job.
That's what you would love to do if you had time.
From chatting with Lisa and a couple of the other graduates,
it's only now as they've got so little time that they've realized what a cost it is.
They struggle so much to get time. I get paid for it.
I think it's because your faith is real if it's faith that lasts.
I guess what I'd be saying there is those that are in heaven are those whose faith is real.
If your faith is counterfeit, you're not in heaven, I suppose, is what I'd be saying.
As I look out, what I see are a bunch of lovely, friendly, seemingly godly people.
In all honesty, if someone were to ask me if anyone here was a Christian,
I'd say, of course they are. They're nice.
They're friendly and they like reading the Bible and they laugh at my jokes.
What I see of you is different to what may be in your heart, though.
People go to Christian camps and people go to Christian groups for all manner of different reasons,
sometimes not even necessarily knowing their motives themselves.
Is it Jeremiah that says, the human heart is deceitful beyond all knowing who can know it?
It's hard for me to look in your heart to know if your faith is real. Only God knows that.
That's why that certain book of the New Testament says to make your calling and election sure.
Keep working out the faith that you have.
In Colossians, it's funny. In Colossians 3 verse 1, he says,
put your eyes on heaven because you have died and you now live in heaven with Christ.
In 3 verse later, he says, put to death the sinful nature.
The sinful nature is dead and you're alive in heaven with Christ, but then he says, put to death the sinful nature.
That is, the genuine Christian is the person who will keep on doing it.
In terms of the are we in heaven, I think the way I would understand that is by saying,
those whose faith is genuine aren't in heaven, but will never be able to spot it here.
All we see are those who are in the church here.
This is the last question.
If God changes his mind, does that mean that he is not in control?
Okay, great question. If God changes his mind, does that mean that he is not in control?
In that it's kind of the, I was going to do that and oops, I better go here because I didn't quite think of that through.
And that's usually why we change our mind, isn't it? We realize that what we thought before was wrong
and that circumstances are such that we need to change our mind.
However, God, I believe, knows his change of mind and plans his change of mind
in the context of relationships with people.
So, he knows what Abraham is going to do. He knows what Abimelech is going to do.
He keeps Abimelech from sinning so that he can at one point say, Abimelech, you're as good as dead.
Okay, now I won't kill you. That is, all the way along, God is super intending the situation.
And it's not as if God realizes at some point, oh, what I thought was wrong, okay, I better change my mind.
It's, God relates in one way and then when human beings do another thing, he says,
okay, I'll now relate to you in this way, but it's not that I didn't know that we're going to do that.
I knew it all along. So, Ginnoronomy 18, God says, you guys will sin and I will punish you
and then you'll pray and then I'll bring you back.
So, when God sends Israel off to Babylon and then brings them back, it's not as if he went,
oh, gee, I did the wrong thing by sending them to Babylon. I really ought to bring them back.
He promised hundreds of years ago that that would be the case.
And in the context of the real relationships that he has with people, he acts out the real relationship in real time,
knowing all along what's going to happen over there as well and how he'll know real actions there.
I guess in shorthand what I'm saying is we change our mind because we realized we were wrong.
God changes his mind not because he realizes he was wrong,
but because he always planned to respond that way at that time to our real actions.
All right, that's it in terms of question time because it's five to one.
But remember, we all have the Holy Spirit, we all have wisdom and so any question that you've got
can be answered by each other. Why don't I pray and then I think we're done for the week.